Ah, I see, my mistake on the AoS thing then.

I'll post other category questions on Serris' SDA thread about it. Seems like it'd be better to discuss about the categories on the site that determines them.

Anyway, the segment I just did was terrible. It's a combo of your 17 and 18, plus getting Lilith. I ended up having terrible luck, not just with the soul drop, but the enemy spawns/AI afterward would be a rare type as well, and always the type to interfere. So, the plan was Lilith and then run up to where Zephyr is through the clocktower Medusa Heads, Imps, and spikes, damage boosting where possible (to be left with 4 HP at the save). All the runs where I didn't get a soul and which had normal enemy patterns I was able to do this.

Ending up needing 6 tries on the runs where I did get the drop, but on one I got cursed as it died, so had to restart (since mind ups are precious), then the next 4 times got Medusa Headed in the first room of Clocktower (2 times as I was leaving the room), or hit by one during a platforming section. The last time, Malachi decided to jump at me repeatedly instead of standing still as I kicked under him, then I got hit by the Imp as I was leaving the room, tacking on 3 seconds or whatever. I end up making it mostly without incident from there, but then stupidly mistime a jump in the room where you had saved and lost another few seconds. So really, probably lost more time than most of the times I restarted, but was pretty much tired of that segment. Ended up using 2 Potions that I'm hoping don't become necessary later.

So yeah, Lilith is definitely not an 8% drop like Gfaqs lists, and that's a very annoying segment even without luck manipulation.

I'm at 18:30 though, so skipping that intermediate save really did save more than enough time.


Ok, just tested Lilith. It makes about zero difference :/

It doesn't change Yorick's damage at all, and only makes a 1 point difference on the other Bullet Souls I have. I'll have to continue testing and see if it proves useful in the long run, otherwise that's a lot of frustration that isn't necessary.

the INT boosting stuff is mostly for Erinys. you could probably get away with just the +8 from Elfin Robe, but +10 is better than +8.

Yeah, I was just surprised because the +8 from the robe made Yorick do 30 more (against Dario), so I was at least hoping for a little damage increase. But yeah, I'll number crunch when I get to the last few bosses and see how much time it shaves off and hopefully I can skip it (not likely). The nice thing is that the route I take allows for a Satan's Ring, so that's another +3 to INT and a few other stats.

I'm thinking I could skip Olrox's Suit, but it might prove useful on Aguni, depending on how much I want to pause to switch.

Now, time to start working on an Ukoback drop... at the end of a boss-segment, joy. Also, the way I divided my segments is retarded. Out of 18, 9 have soul drop manipulation, 12 are boss fights, 3 are both, and just 1 segment is non-boss/non-soul.

Unless I get Ukoback in the first few attempts, I think I'll save where planned, and then farm him outside the save room, save again, and then continue for dead pirate. It's longer, but this is supposed to be a test run after all.

20:29 after Zephyr, although that boss fight could probably be manipulated better. He goes for counters a lot against me; I don't know if you make him skip them altogether, but at least I noticed if you're in the air he doesn't do his post-counter move. So it's just a matter of timing your Yorick-throwing hop when that finishes up. Not as good as knowing how to skip him countering altogether, but a start I suppose.

My estimate turned out pretty accurate. I'm now at the same spot, 24:33, although there's still some room for improvement.

I think I'll make a copy of this file, then complete it with and without the in-bounds SG, just to compare times and see how Menace goes between the two.

K, so that didn't go too badly. I actually lost time over your segments during the second to last and third to last segments. On Menace, I had an average first head, good second head, and terrible third head (got hit behind him a few times), but he didn't attack very often, so it probably went better than I thought, since it ended up edging out your fight time, which I thought was good. As patience consuming as it would be, his fight could go maybe 15s faster.

I ran out of MP for Erinys, but this was mainly because of missing. I think the number with which I missed could have accounted for the Bhuj damage I had to deal at the end.

On the third to last segments, where you start running through The Abyss, you can do a sliding dive kick to get past the fire pillars without taking damage. I don't think it costs any time (because you'd be in hit stun anyway) and saves 2-3 potions. Also, when dropping into the second room, where you SG to the lfet to avoid a fire pillar, if you SG to where you barely appear outside of the wall, the Rippers won't get in front of you 80% of the time, but will be close enough that they won't throw knives either, so you can do that whole stretch without damage. As another bonus, the Fire Demon doesn't appear either, so no worries on dodging him.

Also, Ninja Suit is not worth picking up in an in-bounds SG run. It adds 3 points of damage to the axe on Menace, which you only use on his first form, 44 -> 47. Basically, it doesn't make up the cost of going to get it by the increased damage output.

Lilith does seem to be worth it, 70 -> 73 damage on Erinys hits, of which there's more than 100, so 600 extra damage, and probably the only reason my fight time ended up faster.

You had mentioned (in your video description) that the fight might have gone better with another level up, but I don't think that would be very easy to do. From before Bat Company, I had a little bit more exp than you (I think it was just a couple hundred though, although I did level up a segment before you), and there's not a great way to get the extra level. I was 1751 from Lv. 20, and even with the couple rooms I have in mind, I don't know how to get that much exp. The best source would be the room of Harpies on the way to The Pinnacle after Bat Company, netting 480 exp. Other than that, it'd just be using Yorick on available monster that would die in one hit to it. Even if it boosts the damage output of Erinys by 1, that'd be 200 over the course of the fight and probably make up for the few extra seconds killing things would accrue.


So yeah, I think I'm going to work on a NG+ on another file, then come back and finish up the non-warp NG. Menace won't be nearly as much of a pain.